Top 10 Profile: Kemal Atatürk
Name: Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Born: Thessaloniki, Greece (formerly part of the Ottoman Empire) 1881
Died: Istanbul, Turkey November 10, 1938
Length of rule: 15 years (October 1923 until his death in 1938)
Means of ascent to power: Military victory
Means of removal from power: Died while in power
Style: Benevolent dictatorship, cult of personality
NOTES:
It may be argued that no other 20th century leader has left so large a mark on his nation as Kemal Atatürk. Following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in World War One, Atatürk rebuilt his nation from the ground up.
Atatürk's most notable, almost impossible, achievement was the transformation of the Islamic Ottoman Empire into the politically secular Republic of Turkey. On paper, this doesn't seem very impressive, but the political and social impact changed the face of the Muslim world forever. Continuing from there, Atatürk remolded the image of his people from the pan-Islamic religious identity into a solidly Turkish nationalist one. Atatürk turned away from the Middle East and looked towards Europe for new modes of dress, and even introduced orthographic reform for the Turkish language by abolishing the Arabic script Turks had used for centuries and mandating the use of the Roman alphabet.
Since his death, Atatürk has become the embodiment of Turkey and of Turkishness. Indeed, criticism of Atatürk is unthinkable - even illegal - in Turkey to this day. None of the other dictators on my top 10 list (not even Mao or Stalin) have had the same lasting social, cultural or political impacts on their subjects as Atatürk has had on his.
137 comments:
Bütün işlerimi bitirip, boş oturmaktansa biraz internette dolaşıp, dünyaya bakayım dediğimde, bu aralar zeka sorunları ve hastalıklı ruh halleri ile ilgili okumaya çalışıyorum. Bugün de aynı şeyi yaparken, bu siteye geldim. Neden acaba diye düşünürken de Atatürk'ü diktatör olarak tanımladığını gördüm ve anladım ki doğru yerdeyim. Hastalıklı bir ruh halinin üretimi var karşımda. Ne tarih bilgisi, ne değerlendirebilme yeteneği, sadece aptalca bir alıntı metni. Safım, sen bırak bu işleri, Rhode Island'la ilgilen, bizi de bilgilendir, ufkumuz genişlesin. Seninkini genişletmek mümkün değil, yok ki...
neymis bu adamin bilmedigi 'tarihi gercekler acaba?!!!' peki senin siyaset ilminden haberin var mi? ataturk bal gibi de DIKTATORDUR ustelik FASIST bir diktator!... cehaletinden habersiz bir milleti ruh hastasi ilan etme gayreti!!! kim empoze etti sana bu fikirleri hic dusundun mu, sorguladin mi? yoksa dayatmayla oldugu gibi kabul mu ettin de simdi zoruna gidiyor, adamin asli bi kere 'YAHUDIDIR' neyse, bizler cahil ve ruh hastasiyiz siz yalanlarinizi pazarlayin ama unutma tarih 1007 degil 2007 'bilgi cagi' zor milleti kandirmak!!!
Faşist diktatörler halkçılık ilkesine bu kadar önem vermezler.Adam diyerek terbiyesizliğini ortaya koyduğun Atatürk'ün kökeninin yahudi yada afrikalı olmasını neden söyledin?? biz insanları kökenine bakarak mı yargılıyoruz? dar-kafalı-bir ırkçıysan dünyaya dön bir bak bakalım ırkçılık-bazlı nasyonel politikayla ayakta durabilen hiçbir ülke varmı? Ayrıca, dayatma değil, dış ülkelerden objektif olarak yorum yapan Türk kültürü araştırmacıları arkadalarım Atatürk'ü neredeyse bizden çok ilah kabul ediyorlar. İşin aslı, dar-görüşlü şeriatçılardan başka hiçbir insan Türkiye'nin ne halden ne hale kimin sayesinde geldiğini, bu adamın yaptıklarını görüp de ''bunları biz dayatmayla ezberlettiler, o yüzden Atatürk'e büyük diyoz' demez.. buarada bu sitey muhtemelen bi daha uğramam, cevabın vars içinde patlasın mümkünse :D
Atatürk yahudidir diyen arkadasa sesleniyorum, umarim bin tane baban vardir, ve hepsi de yahudidir.
Türkçe konuşup, türkçe yazan arkadaşım! "Sohbetlerde" yanlış bilgilendirmişler seni. Atatürk'ün baba soyu Karamanoğlu Beyliği anne tarafı ise Yunus Emre soyundandır. Bu, öyle cahil bilgisiyle değil soy kütüğü araştırmalarıyla ispatlanmıştır. Ataları Osmanlı Devleti tarafından hem Karamanoğlu Beyliğini ortanda kaldırmak hem de Türkçe'yi ana dil olarak kabul etmiş bu beyliğin Balkanların Türkleşmesi için Konya bölgesinden Makedonya bölgesine göç ettirilmiştir. Yahudiliğe gelince, Kur'an-ı Kerim'i layıkıyla anlayabilmemiz için Elmalılı Hamdi Yazır'a meal ve tefsir yaptırmıştır. Osmanlı 1920'de yıkıldığında nüfusun %30'undan fazlası müslüman olmayan teba idi. Biraz insaf ve kitap okumaya davet ediyorum. Güzel kardeşim..
M.kemal ataturk was not a dictator he was a revolutioner who found the turkey he was a socialist we can understand where a day somebody ask for him that who is the turks his respons was turk is a person who found the turkey you are so ignorat
I'm from Oz, travellıng ın Turkey rıght now. Your descrıptıon of hım as a "benevolent dictator" is pretty spot on... except that he wasn't especıally benevolent to those who weren't "Turkish" enough, I think... I find his ımagery and name everywhere here: taxis, schools, town squares, main roads, resturants, shops, ınstitutions. I'd like to think he was a decent person, but even so, his cult following worries me, especially reading up on the ridiculous charges "ınsulting" his memory as recent as 2007. I can't trust a figure no one is allowed to criticize.
A recently published book offers a critical re-examination of Turkish history.
Sevan Nişanyan: "Yanlış Cumhuriyet: Atatürk ve Kemalizm Hakkında 51 Soru" (The Mistaken Republic: 51 Questions about Atatürk and Kemalism).
In it, Nişanyan writes: "Unlike Portugal,Spain, and Greece, Turkey has not come to terms with its totalitarian past.... That totalitarian past, perpetuated by the cult of Mustafa Kermal, still lives on."
Nişanyan teaches Turkish Languange and History at Bigli University, Istambul Turkey.
The stadart for a dictator is how much oppression can he create for his success. To see Kemal Ataturk being cataloged as dictator is only worth a laughter. But what can I say? You got stuck in your impressions of various historical characters. And that too, not a significant one either!
I think that indeed Ataturk was a benevolent dictator , yet a dictator does not neccecarily mead someone bad. He made changes, important ones at that to Turkey that his people could not, he gave turkey the push it needed to become a great nation.
What do we mean by dictator? "A dictator is an authoritarian ruler (e.g. absolutist or autocratic) who assumes sole and absolute power without hereditary ascension such as an absolute monarch."according to wikipedia.
i think before putting him on the top of your list there is much more reading that you should do before putting him on the top of your list. Ataturk's regime was authoritarian, i strongly agree with that but generally all the revolutions are made under authoritarian regimes.
but authoritarian doesn't mean dictatorship, there is a clear distinction.(sole and absolute power part)
Other than that, we should all keep in my mind that he contitunionalize a republic instead the old monarchy. I think it's enough to find absurd his number 1 role in your list.
If we look in detail, there is allways a senate in Ataturk's Turkey, and not a puppet one, because some of the laws that Ataturk insists, doesn't pass from senate like land reform, do you think it is normal that number 1 dictator can't do a basic reform because of the elected parliamentarian doesn't accept. i don't think so.
Although, actually there is a short period of time, in which Ataturk has all the powers in his own hands. But it was the senate itself who give the right to do it for a restricted time. and this restricted time was a short time in the independence war, you know decission making had to be as quick as possible in some spesific times, especially if your independence is the case.
there can be found other reasons also for not to call him dictator also, you should read much more political history i think, if you can't find a stronge real dictator instead.
Ulu Önder Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was not a dictator. He saved his land and his people. You are all jealous that you don't have an Atatürk. Even President Kennedy said "he was the greatest leader off the 20 th century maybe even of the whole history" and yes he was the greatest leader of the history. He did the impossible. And Ataturk was not a fasist or something. He didn't like war. He even said war is murder if it's not meant to defend your country!!! so please shut up about the greatest leader ever en let him rest in peace!!
That's a very strange dictator:
He is Muslim and did not kill Jewish people and other innocent people during WWII as Musolini and Hitler and all the other European governments who supported them. So, according to the fundamentalists, he must be even a Jew himself.
(By the way, he predicted WWII in the early 1930s and argued that Turkey has to stay out of this war at any price and gave the refugees of 1933 a home in Turkey).
Also did he as a Muslim not throw atomic bombs on Asian people or slaughter black people because of the colour of their skin.
Of course, at the time of WWII he did not live anymore.
In your eyes, he is a dictator and authoritarian because Muslim people are "primitive" in your point of view. And primitive nations - as your great history shows - need to be robbed of their freedom and independence.
He is also a dictator in the eyes of the fundamentalist-religious people because as you rightly believe they are "primitive". It is much easier to rule, bomb and exploit all these Muslim-theocracies with their "primitive" and uneducated people this way- this is what I consider to be dictatorian.
Indeed, Atatürk was authoritarian in his approach sometimes, but not in his content. You seem to conflate these two things. I can see why.
There has been a debate about Ataturk and some people has been claiming that he is a dictator since he is the leader of new secular democratic Turkey and I see that the debate is also going on here in this blog. I was saying "ooh what the hell let people think the way they want to think". But I couln't stop the strong desire to talk about this issue and make clear what is not known well especially by foreign people. Because I felt responsible. As a Turkish citizen I thought that I should at least share what I know with people.I am not writing this comment because I am Turkish and to curse those people who are misinterpreting Atatürk and saying bad things about him. Though I have to admit that I felt a bit sad when I read negative comments about Atatürk because in all honestly it is clear that after he has spent his life for the people of his society and moreover dedicated himself to the world piece he couldn't make people understand what he has fought for. But still it's okay, it's good to have people with different thoughts and aspects. I've been studying Turkish History for a long while so I just hope that you believe I am trying to be objective with the issue. It would be wrong to claim that Atatürk was perfect. First of all he was a normal humanbeing but just with a much more different and special character and a brain. Yes I can say that he was a genious, a great mind and a brain. But that wasn't just it. He was ambitious, determined and had a great sense of responsibility about the things he cared about. And he was sensitive about what was going on around his enviroment moreover around the whole world. He was caring about people. We all feel sad and want to do something when we see a child hurt or lets think about something bigger if anyone asks us we probably say that we want to end the wars don't we. But ne never take action because we're all in our comfort zones and live happily ever after if nothing bad happenes bad to us. We don't have the power, the sense of responsibility and desire to take action but Ataturk did have all of these qualities. Life is much more easier for us today we can end our days and go our comfortable beds and have a good night sleep. I am not trying to underestimate the problems people are having today but comparing to those situations its much more better. Just leave eveything aside Mustafa Kemal Ataturk lost his father when he was just a little boy. If any of you have experienced that I think you know how hard it could be. And I know that he would like to have a warm bed to sleep in at nights at those times and also the whole of his life. People suffer the most understand better what it is like to get hurt physically or emotionally and they care more. He didn't have a car that his father gave him or fancy clothes which he wore at parties because he was at the military school at those ages and were reading poems and articals every single day to understand the state's situation better. Well did he have to do that? Of course not. He was a bright student and more handsome than anybody I know so he could just live his on life and have reputation and lots of money. But he choosed the other way because he cared he worked hard to do something. Now I am going to put Ataturk's character aside and try to explain how he legitimately achieve the process of the independence and revolutions. First of all he was a soldier a commander at the beginning of his movement and he always paid attention to the relationship between himself and the İstanbul state and the sultan because he knew that he had to be legitimate but after a while he had to resign his commission because Istanbul and the state was under military occupation by the Allies. It was clear that the riddance couldn't come from Istanbul government anymore so as a civilian he begin to organize the Anatolians to win their independence back. Here there is something really important: he always emphasized the importance of the national assembly and made all the decisions with the assembly. This is very important because a dictator never gives importance to public opinion and public's power. There are some exceptions where Ataturk had to take the control over and today some people believe that those situations are showing the world that he was a dictator. One exception is he had the authority of being the supreme command(it means that every word he says is being considered as a law) But it was during the indepence war and it was a state of emergency. If you still insist that it is not appropriate than I have to say that the authority was given him by the national assembly and it was just for 5 months. The story can keep going on and on but I don't want to seem grumpy and priggish like I am just here to defend Ataturk like an ignorant person. I am sure that he had made many mistakes but any of them is good enough for us to label him as a dictator. When people asked him if he was a dictator he answered: I did my best just for my country I haven't done anything for myself. I am underlining the word "myself" because a dictator does everything just for himself! Before I finish I'd like to tell you something. In 1932, in Chalet of Marmara, Atatürk was having a tea party for teachers. And that day a teacher asked Ataturk if he was a dictator. And Atatürk answered him just like this(I just admire the way he answered this question): If I were a dictator you couldn't even ask me this question.Please eveyone before judging something at least know what the reality is.If you still don't like it yeah absolutely go for it and judge! But I don't believe that it's a strong argument to claim that Ataturk wasn't that important,wasn't that smart or what he has done for Turkey is not a big deal. I can assure you even I as a student can come up with millions of antithesis against yours and invalidate your argument. Forgive me if I've been too rude or maybe subjective or I don't know what ever.. I don't have a bad intention. I just couldn't stop myself after reading these comments and I spent almost half an hour in front of my computer just to help you look from a different aspect. It is easy to swear or curse people who are not saying good things about a person's national leader but I choosed the hard way and try to explain the truth, the reality as much as I could. Thanks for your time.
atatürk bir diktatördür, bu aklı başında tüm tarihçilerin kabul edeceği bir gerçektir. buna kızanların göz ardı ettiği nokta şudur, diktatörlük bugünden bakınca kötü birşeydir, atatürk'ün döneminde ise normaldir. o zamanlar her tarafta diktatörler vardı, tepeden inme devrimlerle toplumu değiştirme düşüncesi yaygındı. etraf atatürk'ün de esinlendiği sağ ve sol diktatörler ve ideolojiler ile doluydu. marksizm-leninizm'de bile bir proleterya diktatörlüğü kavramı vardı, toplumun çıkarına olacak değişikliklerin parti diktatörlüğü ile olacağı düşünülüyordu. yani her kavramı dönemine göre değerlendirmek gerekir. atatürk evet bir diktatördür, yaşadığı dönemde yapmak istediği reformları yapabilmesi için de o günün gerektirdiği budur. atatürk diktatördür denilince sinirlenmek abesle iştigaldir, komiktir.
well done. He is the worst dictatore.
He create a dictatership system of govening his country the problem turkish they think they live in democracy.Turkish woke up.
anonymous fettosyan sen ataturkun tasaklarina kurban ol olm o olmasydi baban yunan olma ihtimali yuksekti:) bide sana tavsiyem ruh sagligini bi gozden gecirmen:) bana delil sun canimi ye , sallion paso , hani nerde delil olm ? akilli ol az
Atatürk'e diktatör diyen anasının amında babasına götveren orospu çocuğu vatanhaini... Atatürk sadece senin gibi bölücü ve vatanhaini orospu yaratıklarını temizledi ülkeden. keşke şimdi de olsa ve temizliğe devam etse...
If you think that Atatürk was a dictator, what do you think of the actual Nicolas Sarkozy ??? far more worse and not aiming in the interest of the Nation but in his own interest
Ataturk was the gift to World!
He was in different class than other dictators with no doubt.
He was the greatest man in the world.
Did you know that during his fight against Ottoman Empire government, he had no official auhotirty at all. All generals were following him up by their own willing. He had execution order on his name.
So he has fighint not only with invaders or country also he was fight against for those who were selling their own country for their individual benefits.
Some remarks about him:
--> he purified Turkish language from Arabic and Persian words and gave its origins to language as Turkic Languages. Today most improved version or Turkic language is spoken in Turkey.
--> he is decided the abolition of Chalipatizm in Muslim world. Last Chalipate was Ottoman Empire. He had even more power on muslims than what today Pope has on Christians. But Ataturk foreseen and also was living the future.
WE LOVE YOU ATATURK
YOU WILL LIVE IN OUR HEARTHS AND MINDS FOREVER!!!!!!
NO WORDS ARE ENOUGH TO DESCRIBE YOU WHO DOES NOT KNOW YOU!!!
[Short Poll about Influential Leaders]
http://www.pollsquad.com/_poll_who_is_the_most_influential_leader_of__all_times.php
Kemalism...
Someone who cannot be criticized has already been made into a sacred being. That is scary... Look into the situation in Turkey. Any slightest comment, criticism now even about him but about what happened around his time is regarded as an insult to him!!! Everyone has to bow in his memory with myriads of special days around the year before his statues everyhere. I do not mind if people from the religing of Kemalism want to worship him!!! It is their choice but stop imposing your love! on others in Turkey.
oh.. novadays people are not reading history books and dare to write things like that.. ahh well then i will tell you the truth :) 23 april 1920.. Turkish parliament was formed.. it was our ancestors that chose the members of the parliament ofcourse -we are a republic you know-. Ataturk was chosen as president -many times-. Because he was a magnificent leader that has done many reforms -which our country needed/ which you even couldnt bother to read in simple history books/ which caused this nation to adore him so much. He did his best to encourage all the important people with different ideas to take their part in a multiparty system. Maybe his life didnt last long enough to see the true democracy, but that was his true wish. A quote from him: "Egemenlik kayıtsız şartsız milletindir." which can be translated as: Authority, without any condition and reservation, belongs to the nation. / Sovereignty rests unconditionally with the nation. and etc.. Dont you dare to call him a dictator... seriously, im pissed off..im done with you
This article was probably created by an ignorant facist Kurd nor a radical islamist or a lying Armenian...
If there is a hell on the other side, cement misto (this is how general public call mustafa kemal ataturk), hitler, mussolini, stalin, saddam must be all the way in the bottom. The amount of blood these bastards have shed, should be enough for them to have been drawned again again till eternity...
Ataturk 'un yaptiklarini kim yapabilir tekrardan?Ister yahudi olsun ister mason olsun hepimizden milyonlarca daha fazla turkdur.Ataturk olmasaydi turkiye bir somurge olurdu ve turkiye bir melez ulkesi olurdu ve selam..
when ataturk's life is examined carefully, not skin deeply, you can see he is the one who brought democracy to turkey. yes, ataturk had a chance to be a dictator, but he didn't use it. if he wanted, he easily could be the sultan of the ottoman empire, however he said the best ruling system for turkey was republic. he wanted his friends to establish two polical parties to improve the democracy, however those polical parties were filled with extremly religious people who wanted to destroy the republic, so those political parties were closed not by ataturk, by the founders of them. also, ataturk never decided something by his own. he always met people, discussed. he never legislated something directly. everything discussed in the turkish assembly. today, in turkey some people see him as a dictator, because this is one of the best ways to kill the love of ataturk inside people.( the other way is to say that he was jewish or atheist also foreign people see him as a dictator. this has two reasons. first, they dont search him much. and second, when the republic of turkey was founded, people in imperialist countries couldn't accept his accomplishments, and they wanted to see him as a dictator to be able to slander him. i want to add this, too, at the first days of the republic, in the american congress, this was said: "turkey can't be a secular country. ataturk, dictator, won nothing. everthing is being exaggerated. to control the anatolia, middle east and northen africa, ottoman empire has to be rebuilt."
sorry for grammer errors!
"Since his death, Atatürk has become the embodiment of Turkey and of Turkishness. Indeed, criticism of Atatürk is unthinkable - even illegal - in Turkey to this day. None of the other dictators on my top 10 list (not even Mao or Stalin) have had the same lasting social, cultural or political impacts on their subjects as Atatürk has had on his."
you see the last paragraph of this article above. Ataturk still has those impacts, because he was not a dictator; we was the leader of his nation who wanted peace for whole nations, as he said : "Peace at home, peace at world"
the word of "dictator" is not equal to leader, if you are not an anti-Turkish fashist.
Shut up noobs, and read carefully! The guy says benevolent dictator, stop getting pissed off for no reason. And stop spamming in Turkish.
This article was written by one of these:
-Racist
-Kurd
-Greek
-Armenian
-Radical Islamist
-Fundamentalist Christian
-Adolf Taqiyya Erdogan
Ataturk didn't rally or oppress a bunch of comfortable people, the European nations had their plans signed and ready for execution, havign bought out the empire after the World War. Ataturk was a commander who ended Imperialism in the nation, organized people to fight the war of Salvation (or roughly Translated Independence), and saw to it that the new nation would be ruled in a contemporary manner. His first and foremost act was to establish an parliament. Benevolent dictator just doesn't fit with him.
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And for my darling tourist who passed through Turkey, rest easy, us secularists who are contemporary intelligent people as Atatürk publicly announced he wished of the Turkish youth, and we are being labeled as elitists for wanting our republic remain secular, our women and our brother races a decent humanly rightful way of living in Turkey, our workers and students the right to protest, and keep radical islamism at bay. We are ELITISTS for understanding the teachings of an open minded soldier who was bright enough to bring a fairer and futuristic way of living in 1923, and the descentant of whom had the sense to not meddle with the 2. World War.
Ataturk was no more of a dictator than the Ancestors of Americans who wrote the constitution or the british who established their parliament or any other rightful existence seeking leader.
Turkey never had an independence war. That's just made up in recent times. Ataturk and real turks created Turkey and they were already independent. The illegal treaty signed by the sultan makes westerner think WWI was over -- it wasn't. Therefore, the propaganda that calls it the "independence war" is really the continuation of WWI until the real Treaty was signed. Also, the absolute authority and power given to Ataturk makes him a dictator. All the arguments here are only semantics. I know this from my grandfather who fought in WW1 and who was the the commander to enter Istanbul and accept the turning over of control Istanbul by the British. I agree with the article writer.
Hi
Dear Friends
I think that ataturk was a man who loves his nations (Turk). In USA,In each hallywood movies you can see USA flag and we must be saied that politic is dictator and raschism?
Im not from Turkey i am from Iran. But I think Ataturk was rebublic man that he loves his countries and nationallities.
When atataturk was in war and pollitic he made palrliament he listened to co-workers and peaple to doing each works and planes. This way is democracy not dictatory.
But all of the worlds are seeing Israil that kills many of palestinian but none of pliticians such as western or china or russia hadnt any reactions about Israils kills.
Ataturk loves his nations, I loves his Idea and his Idea is holly for me.
I think when every one wans to speak about anythings, it must be had full of science about him. I think ataturk idea was very simillar to George WAshington
best Regards
"This is an iconoclastic essay by a prominent political scientist and a talented and knowledgeable U. S. colleague. The thrust of their argument is that Kemalism, the official ideology of the early Turkish Republic (1923-1950), is not compatible with or favorably inclined toward liberal democracy, contrary to what most literature about Turkey claims. Instead, they suggested that this is a corporatist, partly fascist ideology, intolerant of dissent and opposition. They do not deny that Kemalism and its author Kemal Ataturk, founder of the Turkish Republic, made great contributions to Turkish politics and society. But they argue that its time has passed. The association of Kemalism with fascism may sound harsh but should not be too surprising, since the Kemalist Republic developed at the same time that Mussolini was imposing his fascist regime on Italy. . . . No other comparable work exists. . . . Highly Recommended."
Choice
http://www.syracuseuniversitypress.syr.edu/fall-2004-catalog/kemalist-turkey.html
I personally think that 'kemalism' or 'ataturkculuk'(as they like to be called) is a PURE fascist mentality, than in reality subjugates 14 million Kurds whose land the turkish republic keeps under occupation.
Since the foundation of modern Turkey in 1923, Ataturk started killing people until he died in 1938. Probably, he is the one who killed the biggest number of Kurds and Alevis who used to live there way before the Turks have migrated to Anatolia. From Diyarbakir, to Van, from Zilan to Hakkari he killed tens of thousands of Kurds. Finally, he orginezed a genocide against Alevi Kurds in Dersim starting from 1934 up until his death. Dersim genocide was his greatest success! Her adapted doughter bombed people from airplanes. He gave her a succes medal. He banned Kurdish language, changed the all the Kurdish names of even the geographic places. He created a pure faschist state based on a single ethnicity, single religion and single language on a geography that has been multiy cultural for centuries. He also has responsibility in Armenian, Yazidi and Suryani genocide. He was also relentless against his opponents in the parliament, army, or any institution in the country. He killed numerious friends of himself. Can you imagine that he ordered the parilament to give him the last name of 'ATATURK' which means 'ancostor turk'. in turkish it comes to mean that the ancastor is a turk. the unfortunate thing about his fascizim is that even though most of the other fascists and their regimes have been overthrouwed and been passed away, turkey still live under this fasicist regime of ataturk in the year 2011.
Are you guys idiots? Ataturk was and is still the father of all Turks! You know that many people have bad criticism towards their dictator! I am pritty sure that no Turk has bad criticism towards Ataturk! Instead of that we love him! How could that be if he was a dictator and why did he change Turkey into a republic, he could just declare himself emperor! "Happy is he who says, "I am a Turk". Ataturk
ataturk WAS a dictator in all definitions. he eliminated all of his political opponents, and centralized all the power in his hands. this is not necessarily a bad thing, it can actually be very efficient if such power can be used properly. in ataturk's case, unfortunately it was not in my opinion, bearning a personality cult in the end.
kemalistler, ne kadar da çoksunuz ve ne kadar da zavallı...
Ataturk the greatest statesman that ever lived. He will always be in our hearts.
Unesco'nun Atatürk Tanımlaması
Uluslararasi anlayis, isbirligi ve baris yolunda çaba göstermis üstün bir kisi,
olaganüstü reformlar gerçeklestirmis bir devrimci,
sömürgecilik ve emperyalizme karsi savasan ilk lider,
insan haklarina saygili, dünya barisinin öncüsü,
bütün hayati boyunca insanlar arasinda renk, din ve irk ayrimi gözetmeyen essiz bir devlet adami,
Türkiye Cumhuriyeti'nin Kurucusu.
UNESCO B.M.E.K.Ö.nün 152 ülkesinin
OYBIRLIGI ile yapmis ve dünyaya dagitmis
oldugu ATATÜRK tanimlamasi.
Metnin Ingilizcesi.
Atatürk is:
An outstanding person who devoted himself for
the development of international understanding,
cooperation and peace, a revolutionist who realized extraordinary reforms, the first Leader who fought against imperialism and colonialism.
A unique Statesman respectful to human rights, pioneer of worldwide peace,
who never discriminated people according to their color religion or race through out his life, founder of Turkish Republic.
UNESCO (United Nations Educational Scientific and Culture Organizations)
Ataturk is no benevolent at all. he made most of his decisions not sober first of all. a sane person would not change the alphabet overnight. a sober person would not beat his wife because viagra was not invented then. a sane person would not give up the islands if he really fought a war of independence. Dictator Kemal is a paper tiger. a fascist flamboyant bastart, Time magazine reports "champaign sipping Dictator Kemal."
real Turkish people loathe him and his so called reforms for his malice and tyranny of a century. now their rule is over. and we will judge him.
ppls whats wrong with u? he is dead long time ago, leave him alone, whatever he was that athist guy, he is gone
Ataturk was by no means a dictator. What kind of a dictator would request that an oppositional party to be founded? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Republican_Party_(Turkey) This party was closed later on because it engaged in unconstitutional activities.
Sure has a cult of personality but I think he deserves it,I can't think of a better leader.
"The centuries rarely produce a genius. It is our bad luck that the great genius of our era was granted to the Turkish nation. We could not beat Mustafa Kemal".
David Lloyd George
Atatürk ulus ve vatanin iyiligi icin yapilmasi gereken hamleleri cok iyi biliyordu ve bunlardan emindi.O'na karsi cikan insanlari vatani ve ulusu ugruna idam ettirmesi gerekiyordu, cünkü onlar bu planlari bozacakti.Eger bu idamlari savas zamaninda yapsaydi, kimse ses cikaramazdi, bugüne kadar zulüm görmüs halklardan kim ihtilal yaptiysa, hepsi kahraman ilan edildi. Keza Atatürk de öyledir. O sadece savas sonrasi yapti bunlari. Fakat arkadaslar, savasin bitmesi demek, ülkenin ve ulusun bütünlügü korumaya alindi demek degildir. Dikkat edelim lütfen. Bu yüzden Atatürk, bazi dar görüslü ve gerici insanlarla catismaya ugradi. Hani insan vücudundaki kanser hücresini öldürmez!! Dedigim gibi, eger savas zamaninda asilsaydi insanlar, Atatürk'e hickimse böyle bir sifati dilinin ucuna bile getiremezdi. Sadece ve sadece, güc onun elinde oldugu icin ve bu gücü kullandigi icin O' na belki terminolojik olarak "diktatör" denilebilir, fakat isin asli detaylarda gizli. Böyle bir kelime oyununa kanmayalim. Tarihe adam gibi bakacak, olursaniz, hicbir diktatörün Atatürk'le uzaktan yakindan alakasi olmadigini göreceksiniz. Atatürk'ün kalbi sevgi doluydu, diktatörlerin ise nefret. Secme ve Secilme Hakkini ulusunun kadinlarina bugünün sözüm ona medeni ülkesi Fransa'dan 11 sene önce vermis olan bir adam, Allah askina nasil diktatör olarak adlandirilabilir aklim mantigim almiyor biri aciklasin lütfen.
Okuduysaniz tesekkürler
I'm a Turkish citizen, i read a lot (not only the ones i was forced to read in schools of Turkey) and i can make objective decisions. I've been raised with emotional attachments to Ataturk (my mother is a big fan of him) but i have a brain and a filter to read and search for the truth from objective sources. first of all READ CAREFULLY AND UNDERSTAND THE TERMINOLOGY. He is called a benevolent dictator. Benevolent means "iyiliksever" in Turkish. I can't really judge if he was benevolent or not, because i didn't meet him in person but his leadership qualities tell me he was more of a soldier than a leader and yes he was the perfect leader for the people of a land who were known as soldiers throughout the history. Somebody gave an example of him telling a teacher "if i was a dictator, you wouldn't be able to ask me this" when the teacher asked him if he was a dictator. Don't you think this is a bit like a fairytale? If that's the case, why can't we criticize him openly in 2012? Why there is a law in Turkish constitution that even blocks youtube to its free citizens? Some people complained that on youtube people are saying bad things about Ataturk. Ataturk was a smart man, he might have chosen the route of dictatorship during the years he was managing (it was normal at that time), but if he was living now, he wouldn't act like you do on behalf of him. Read the history, there were women who were fighting for their rights even before Ataturk. Nezihe Muhiddin was a female leader who is behind the constitutional rights of women. And when women wanted to open a female party in the parliament, government led by Ataturk didn't allow them. Do we know this? NO! About the second political party that was opened (a proof people want to show to say Ataturk was not a dictator) somehow was shut down because of constitutional reasons. Come on guys, ok then i will prepare a constitution, allow another party to exist but will make sure the constitution closes that party if it gets out of my control. The second party was a puppet, was an image to hide the reality. Yes Ataturk approved a lot of official cleaning (killing) of Alevi people (including kids, old people, women) using the excuse of an attack on a police station which was there to provacate the alevi public there. Once the rebellion against government was stopped and the leaders were punished and hung, then government led troops on the rest of the civilians (mostly women and kids) with approval of Ataturk. 75.000 people were killed. When i think about it, it's a bit scary to see how some people (they call themselves kemalists. my family and my friends are some of them can not stand any word of criticism against Ataturk. At last he was a HUMAN BEING and he could have made some mistakes. I think years later if something happens and people disappear from this earth and some aliens come to see the ruins, when they see the huge statues (i mean HUGE) or if they see his HUGE mausoleum that looks like the temples of Gods in antique Greece, probably they will think that he is some sort of a God that primitive people were worshipping. To sum it up, Ataturk had a dream of living in a western looking country just like the ones he saw when he was living in European countries. It's not easy to do that to people who lived in a different life standard for centuries, you can't decide to change the alphabet in one night, or tell people to pay tax if they were given freedom for centuries during Ottoman Empire.... not unless you know IF YOU WANT IT, IT WILL BE DONE. (I'm not saying he did bad by changing, it's more democratic to do this gradually and by being considerate to people not by force). if you honor anything good about Ataturk, dont underestimate a smart man like him by still surviving on his words he created almost 100 years ago. He would want you to develop, grow and adopt to the changing world.
I wonder how stupid the one who must be, who has written that article here. Must be someone who had no idea of history and has no idea of evaluate this. He has to learn a lot of history. Someone who has done much for his nation for his people, can not be a dictator. Very shameful, cheap and implausible article. Greetings George
I seen an apparently endless supply of dumb Turks here who either did not, or cannot, read the article, and are programmed like robots to lash out at anything they even think is negative written about Kemal Ataturk.
Read the article. And then come back and complain. Or at least explain how a political leader who concentrates absolute political power in his own person is NOT a dictator.
Whoever you are, you are either joking or an ignorant. if your comments about Atatürk being a faschist dictator are true, then people of Turkey love fachist dictators so much, they still mourne even 65 years after their death. You wish all dictators (past and present) around the world were like Atatürk. You also should wish all drunk and alcoholics were just like Atatürk. No matter what you say and do. you will not be able to erase the love we still feel and will always feel for our only one savior our Mustafa Kemal Atatürk! Just wake up and smell the coffee, get real, do not beleive brainwashed bimbos. Just read the right books you will find out why Atatürk is an idol for people of Turkey.
To the one who said Ataturk did not kill the Jews: Check Dersim Rebellion and the response of Mustafa Kemal's army.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dersim_Rebellion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dersim_Massacre
I still love Ataturk with all my heart. Here is why: Most of commenter here criticized him. I am pretty sure he would be fine with that. He did what he believed was right thing to do for his people at that time. It appears that most people here at this blog spot look at and make their comment from the perspective of today. What would you do 80-90 years ago under the circumstances of that time?
Here are some for you....
- world war 1 just ended and the western imperialist powers occupied the country.
- his people were tired of war and mostly poor uneducated farmers
- his people lived 500 years of Islamic sharia
I can go on and on listing more but I think you all get my point.
He was under a very difficult circumstances.
Now transport yourselves 80-90 years back and try it again.
Imagine a leader coming to your country and saying it needed to follow Iran for a better future, changed the current alphabet, language, dress code, culture without the consultation of it's people, literally over night. If this is not facisim What is??
Yes he was a strong leader of the Turkish Army but as a political leader his approach was complete & utter totalitarian I'm afraid.
The idolization of Ataturk in Turkey is incredibly dangerous & pathetic in my view. Statues, pictures, quotes of his every step you take, I felt like I was in a communist country. To dare to question this or criticize this means being subject to violence, discrimination or even imprisonment. What is this? Did he really bring democracy or a cult?
Ataturk was not a dictator. No dictator encourages democracy when he has the power to be a new king or emperor.
I dont give a damn about all of your obsessive statement. He is an enemy of Islam. And, be ashame if you as a muslim support him even worship this unworthy human being.
bir türk olarak açıkça söyleyebilirim kendisi muhteşem bir diktatör.
şimdi gelip bana yobaz ayağı çekmeyin amınıza korum.
biz de sizin yetiştiğiniz sikik sistemde yetiştik. çocukken bana da sevdirdiler atatürkü. söylediğiniz söyleyebileceğiniz her şeyi biliyorum ve fikrimi değiştirmiyor.
as a turkish person who was made to love atatürk in elementary school i can easily say that he is a fucking great dictator. turkish people love him because they are product of living dictator system. the love of atatürk is like love of kim jong il. he is dead but his fascist idea is alive. some people kept it alive after his death and dictatorship of him still runs in turkey.
This is a long and very interesting debate to read.
I right now live in Turkey, and there are some things i would like to add:
1) Why do you all have to post anounoumously? If Ataturk really created a democracy, it should be a place where everyone can speak there mind and critize?
2) A lot of you, who loves him so much. I can understand. but your arguments are invalid - especially this one "try to go back 80-90 years and try again". Well thats THE POINT. We move one in history, we get smarter, we LEARN FROM HISTORY. Off course we should take what we know today, and look back at our historical leaders, even the ones we love, and be able to critisize them! If we cannot do this, we will stay ay status quo and nether move forward as societies!
3) I am a little surprised to hear that when you defend him, you talk so much about his personal life and his personality! I mean, we are talking politics! We talk about historical facts, political decisions and changes in legalislation! WHY do you find the need to talk about all of the personal details about him????? I can critizice all other leaders fort their leadership! Off course, i can also put it into the histical context and try to understand them as people (like Hitler, who loved to paint and wanted to be a painter, but got kicked out from artschool), but thats not a rationel discussion about whether Ataturk had absolute power and did things in a non-evolutionary way.
4) Please seperate these two things: ONE is whether WHAT he did with his power was good. Im sure it was. Another is whether he was a dictator or not! And when everyone of you SO strongly feel the need to say you love him, and that everyon who wants to critisize him must be "racists or evil kurds", you just reinforce the point of the articel!
And yes. It is scary with these statues and pictures EVERYWHERE. The only place i have seen something similar was in China, where the face of Mao is absolutely everywhere and no one dares to say anything critical about him.
I totally agree with Roger William's assesment: "Non of the other dictators ... have had the same lasting ...impact...as Ataturk had on his."
Sen ya diktatorlugun anlamini bilmiyorsun yada hayatinda diktator gormemissin. Ataturk zekasi, ilerigorusluluguyle bir milleti cok zor durumdayken yok olmaktan kurtardi. O yuzden uzerinden yillar gecmesine karsi bu kadar cok seviliyor, bu kadar cok ozleniyor. Elbette ki kiskananlar olacaktir. Neden bu kadar sevildigini anlayamayanlar olacaktir. Dunyanin en asil, en ulu onderi ATATURK'tur.
Ya adam Yahudi olsa ne olur Afrikali olsa ne olur?
Yikilmaya yuz tutmus bir cografyayi bagimsizligina kavusturmus bir karakter, her nekadar senin hayali-politik goruslerine karsi olsa da, Sahip oldugumuz 'ULKE' - bagimsizlik- olgusunu degistirmez.
Ondan sonrasi elbette 80 kusur yilda gelinmis hal icler acidisidir. Bizler Hala Mustafa Kemal'in arkasinda, kicinda onun savunuculugunu yapiyoruz. Nerdeyse 100 yil gecti hala ilerisine gecemedik. Ne insan haklari olsun, ne demokrasi olsun nede bir ticaret bilgi bilim dunyasinda..
Hala turk-kurt vs tartisiyoruz. milletin cinselligiyle ilgileniyoruz..
Bu isler Dogru duzgun beslenmeyen, abuk subuk aliskanliklari olan, ona buna bagimli bir toplumla olacak bir sey degildir, Degisim, devrim yapmak.
Kendi bagimsizligini kazanamamis bireyler toplumun yoneticileri tarafindan sopalanmaya mahkumdur. Bugunku Turkiyenin halide budur.
I HAVENT SEEN ANY DICTATOR BRINGING REPUBLIC ,DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS.
_BUT ALL THESE ARE DONE BY MUSTAFA KEMAL_
You can also bring up the fact that he killed any who did not take on the tittle of "turk" in Anatolia
Ah be aydın arkadaşlar, ilkokuldan beri beyninizi yıkamışlar kurgu bir tarihle... Andımızla vs körleştirmişler sizi... Gerçekleri görmek için biraz araştırın, körü körüne kandırmaca tarihe inanmayın. Çok okumanız araştırmanız lazım, ama genelde görmek istemiyorsunuz, o nedenle araştırmıyorsunuz maalesef.
Ataturk is not a dictator. Yes, he wasn't be leader who come with elections, but it isn't means "he is a dictator". He is totally father of Turks. He brings all of Turkish nation from middle age to 20. century. Yes he use nationalism because, all of turks were tired and hopeless on his time. And Islam is not logical for 20. century, as you know. And he use nationalism for self confidence of Turkish nation. He was always says: All nations are brothers, we should love each other!
Ataturk was a dictator and the basic ex to this theory is the unstanding behaviours of his fans... Call "Yea he was a dictator" and angry faced "modern" Turks will attack on you.. İf he wasn't, why are you so angry then? Don't give me craps as "we can't stand disrespectful acts to him" as you are really haters to any Islamic point.. What you get is what you deserve and what real is Attaturk was a bloody dictator for butchering Muslims, Kurds and Armenians...
No further excuse man!
Ataturk was a dictator and the basic ex to this theory is the unstanding behaviours of his fans... Call "Yea he was a dictator" and angry faced "modern" Turks will attack on you.. İf he wasn't, why are you so angry then? Don't give me craps as "we can't stand disrespectful acts to him" as you are really haters to any Islamic point.. What you get is what you deserve and what real is Attaturk was a bloody dictator for butchering Muslims, Kurds and Armenians...
No further excuse man!
JFK u must lissen to him and his words for Ataturk hes saying the truth
Allah sizi bildigi gibi yapsin slogan belli ALLAH a sukur ataturke tesekkur. yaptiklari icin.
what's wrong with you? no doubt you dont even read any book about the wwI. you heard something about ataturk but you dont have a clear point. even if the new goverment has been trying to destroy almost everything ataturk built, we do admire him because of his genius. can you tell me how many commanders did they beat the uk,french,italy,greece except ataturk? ataturk was awarded many times by dint of his peaceful approaches. I do recommend that you'd better take a look at a couple history books. if you like to read, write a comment that defines your post address. I can send you for free.
best wishes from california
Who the f* r u? U're talking about democracy, u don't have any idea about democracy, I guess u're talking about USA democracy, it's a most biggest lie ever been, what about indians and black people in america and even japanese people massacre. Shut ur mouth smart ass.
Your answer is simple. Ataturk is still respected and celebrated after 76 years of his dead and not a SINGLE president or leader is still mourned after 75 years! NOT A SINGLE ONE! Dictators are never celebrated but bashed! If he was dictator no one would remember his name! We love him and respect him but we don't see him as God or prophet. That is just something that SOME arabs love to say but they don't even know that the very fist mosque that calls to prayer in the morning is located in Japan and it is constructed by Ataturk's order! I repeat, everyday the very first prayer that will start is located in Japan! Ataturk was a muslim as well but not fantic like those 3rd world arab countries. I don't give 2 shits about Arabs don't liking him. I wouldn't trust a single Arab as they betrayed Ottomans and motherfuckers are lazy, dirty, and all they know is 2 drive their Ferraris! (They don't work and they are bc of the oil God put in their Country) I've been to Saudi Arabia and Dubai! Women can't even drive in Saudi! Show a single verse in Qaran where it states you can't drive! These bastards are not muslim, they are only muslim on paper. They don't respect other religions, people, and think that they are the chosen one. I am muslim but not idiot like them. Ataturk got rid off all these bastards so Turkey can go forward. You cant show me a single muslim country where humans rights are given any importance! Now Turkey does have a bad human rights record thanks to all the fucked up governments took place and lately with fucking Erdogan! He is trying to change the country into Iran and erase Ataturk but he will never be successfull.
Also, Ataturk modernized Turkey, Gave women rights before even England did!,
Separated religion and politics.
etc etc.
He is arguably one of the best leaders ever came on this earth and only assholes could call him a dictator. On the 10th of Nov, at 9:05am everything stops in Turkey! You can still see people crying, giving soldiers salute, honking their cars, etc. You will only see Tayyip's sheeps that would not stop. Those are the brainwashed people not me or the others who supports Ataturk.
Anyways, the main reason why we love him bc if it wasn't him, there would no Turkey now and I wouldn't be writing what I wrote today! He saved this country from enormous shithole and you can't disrespect people like that!
Now Tayyip has been ruling the country for the last 12 years and he sold the country, limit the intenet, assigned his own people to all parts of the government, changed the laws to his advantage, 0 women rights, etc and THAT IS CALLED A DICTATOR!!! We all saw once again, religion can not be part of politics in this country! Look at all the extremist countries in the world and look where they are! They are all 3rd world, backward, shitholes.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY WE LOVE HIM NOW???????????????????
All the people on this blog telling Atatruk butchered Kurds, Muslims, Jews, are pure fanatic assholes who probably never read a single book in their lives. Keep lying on the net, nothing will change the history books or the reality. He never removed the Muslims idiots! Turkey is predominantly Muslim in case your ignorant asses do not know! He tried to change ezan to Turkish not bc he hated Islam but he wanted people to understand the meaning of what has been said in Arabic. Today I guarantee you 90% of so called Muslims in this country can not tell me the meaning of what they pray? What is the purpose of praying blindly if you do not know what it means! Ataturk did not want this TYPE of muslims people at the time bc he saw the dangers of fanatics! The Eu and American guys on this blog, I ask you would you want these fanatic bastards ruling your country and their laws? Yeah, i you saying hell no! Than, Stop bullshitting about Ataturk! He wanted modernize this country just like yours but current rejime in this country doing totally the opposite! Ataturk left and did so many great things for this nation! He fought with powerful countries at the same time when Turkey did not have a modernized military yet they were able to kick their asses! Tell me how many countries would be able to do that with all the negatives on their sides! He was a great soldier, a general, a patriot, and YES he was Muslim! Him drinking doesn't mean he wasn't Muslim. You are not fucking going to hell just bc you drink it once in while! Yes it is Haram but for a reason, for your own good! Plus it is nobodies business to be the attorney of God! I am muslim and I drink once in a while. 2 faced arabs say it is haram but I know most of them do drink it. I went to a college in US and all the damn arabs were drinking beer so talking about how to be a good Muslim like a preacher! Sharia is a fucked up law made by evil people! God never tells treat your women like shit and all or go kill other people just bc you think they are the devil. No terrorist is going to heaven! Killing is banned in Quran!
So yeah Ataturk wanted to end all this nonsense and tried to create a Muslim, Democratic, and a modern place. He was successfull but today motherfuckers are trying everything they can to erase him! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE that is why you saw people who follow him started to protest against current rejime. Turkey will always be free and secular. Now shut the fuck up extremist and Muslim my ass piece of shits...
oh.my.god. !! dear i am sorry but you need to do your search rater than citing wikipedia or random websites.
Obviously you really do not know what dictator means. The whole country bears him as Father of Turk and you are accusing him being a dictator, I really feel sorry for you.
Ataturk wasnt a dictator. he didnt want it to be anyway.necessary changes needed to be done in the forst years of the republic and he had to dictate them. lets face it, people lived under ottoman rulers for centuries and you try to introduce them to western style democracy. how you will achieve that.? referendum? please...
he single handedly changed alphabet, introduced a new constitution ( mostly copied from Switzerland as it was the most modern democratic constitution), changed the units, dress code, education, gave women right to vote many years before many European countries, Ottoman regime. also, country already had been through battles like Balkan wars 1912-13, WW1 1914-18 and independence war 1919-22 ( country literally deprived sources to fight against 7 nations. with the leadership of Ataturk, independence war had been won. anyone who knows some history dispute to claims that he was a dictator.
if he gave orders to silence rebels, it was for the safety of the republic. lets see if minority of your country start uprising and want to recede from the union? who will let that happen? then you are all dictators.
Of course he was a dictator. Is it normal for a democratic person to ban islamic clothing? Is it normal for a democratic person to hang people because they didn't change the way they dressed? This is just one simple example of the dictatorship of the person that is called ataturk. Some say he did it because he loved his nation. That is actually the problem: 'He' did it, not 'the citizens'. Any open minded objective person can easily understand that.
But i understand most of the people here too, saying "he wasn't a dictator". I used to say the same thing 4 years ago. You know why? because in turkiye, from 1st grade to the 12th grade, teachers do the propaganda of ataturk. its just the way it is. it is like you are some fan of some team. The problem is that there is just one team... There is much to write but i don't have the time. So search and read, have your own opinion. You will see that he fits the description of a fachist and a dictator.
Good day everybody :) Greetings from Turkiye :)
Ataturk was absolutely against the idealization of himself as a figure. This applied to statues, pictures, etc. Radical followers are very much responsible of the current perception of him as a dictator rather than a pioneer of a revolution. Also, Kate says " I can't trust a figure no one is allowed to criticize." The related law passed by a party in 1951 after 13 years of his death. This wasn't his will or implication.
I agree. The problem is since 1940 they intentionaly making people fall in love with him. This is done to make everyone in turkey racist. Can you blieve you are not allowed to critize him! Why?? What are you hiding?? If he is soooo great why wont you let us critize him and be embarrassed by your answers. Anyone who says
anything negative or critize him is killied or thrown in prison. I would ask people around the world ask the kurds, ermanians and greeks about what he did to them!! All his remarks speeches writtings about one race. He even made a comment saying " if you want to be happy be a turk" or " turks are clever turks are intelligent turks are har working, happyness to whom says i am turkish" thesw are his words. Thats why you are not allowed to critize because if you do all his criminal murders dictatiship will be revelaeved and be emberrassed to the world.
I wonder why all three hate him!!! I knoq the comment made above by a racist turk who was brought up by a state wjo forces you to fall in love with him. Doesnt even say " why cant we critize him?" Even he knows he will be in prison??
Atatürk was the one who bring democracy to turks , how he can be dictator ?
he is the one force to people for open new political groups in turkish
parlemento he is the one always said I didnt won this war or build this great country . great turkish nation did it how possible that this guys is dictator ? when he death milions of people were on the street crying and last time following atatürk do you really think people does that to dictator ?, I respect all ıdeas but say dictator to Atatürk hurt me soo much . he said peace inside country oeace outside country so turkey did enter WWII how this guy can be a dctator ? only in turkey conservetiv muslim people ( some people not even all ) dont like him or hate him becasue they believe imperi or muslim country or sultan ( which is mean king so this is real dictator )
Did you know that during his fight against Ottoman Empire government, he had no official auhotirty at all. All generals were following him up by their own willing. He had execution order on his name.
say dictator to attatuk is like say atheism is a religion..
Because your English is terrible, and you are a Turk. That's why.
None of you Turks have bothered to read, let alone understand, the point of this post.
A political leader who concentrates political power in his person is a dictator. Period.
Now, from there, he can do good things, or bad things. However, this does not change the fact that he is a dictator. Whether he has done good, or bad, things, the mere fact that he has used this dictatorial concentration of power to do them makes him a dictator.
I praised your dictator in a list where condemned others. Is this not enough for you, Turks?
Gece gece tepemi attirdi bu sayfa ne guzel turkiye ile ilgili sunum hazirliyordum karsima cikan sayfaya bak ya adami deli eder boyle insanlar ne diktatoru ya
Ataturk was not saint, but clearly a very great man. He had great power, but did not abuse it by the standard of his day.
He did not grab dictatorial power. His power grew out of the recognition of the Turkish people of what he did for them. Yes, he was authoritarian and brutal at times, but this also has to be measured by the standard of his day.
Ataturk moved Turkey in one generation into the modern era, from a feudal society. He made Turkey incomparably more democratic and just than it was before him.
Considering the relatively very backward nation he had to work with and has transformed so much, his accomplishments in almost all fields are almost unbelievable - this in my opinion includes his work towards democracy. Consider just what he did for Turkish women.
Very few nations have in their history such great and successful reformers as Ataturk was.
this blog is bollocks. it contains bullshit. you cannot change what ataturk had done for his nation. you can just try to twist. at least people can read more about him and understand better.
Ataturk was a dictator. Period. Educate yourselves what I mean by, read some books. I am explaining because you all fans of him sound like crazed lunatics. And fanatics do not use their brains but try to reason with their muscles. So yeah, he was also an ignorant as fuck. Claimed that all people of the world came from proto-turks and canonized his idiocy with a so-called theory, "güneş-dil, " "sun-language!" What a buffoon, omg! So please read Nişanyan's book, I guarantee you will go bonkers because you kemalists, like I said above, have no brain. To summarize, go fuck yourselves you fucking drunkards. :)) bhaaaahaa. Lol.
I'm Turkish historian from Greece and Ataturk was a Greek, he was a dictator, acted awful to Turkish people. Killed a lot of people because of their freedom. Tortured Muslims, sold a lot of Turkish land. Of course actually I'm happy because he destroyed Ottoman Empire and created a poor country :) Unmuslims and Greeks love Ataturk because he fucked Turks but still some Turks love him LOL
Mustafa Kamal was the worst thing which could happen to Turkey.
He has reformed the Arabic writing which was the biggest disaster what can happen to a nation. This was only made to close the doors to their magnificient history, The Ottoman State (Not Empire! - It was never an Empire).
After that the removing of the Khalifat brings the worst cruelty to all Islamic nations.
He stole the soul of the turkish nation and culture and left them like ghosts. After building of the Republic it cames to crash because it was build on lies. Or do you know any invention of Turks after the Ottoman and Islamic inventions??? Please let me know if you think there is some mentionable invention that can measure with the Ottoman inventions.
I don't like this guy.
Sevmiyorum ulan bu herifi!!! Allah bildigi gibi yapsin. Amin.
bro he is the person who freaking ended dictatorship. before him it was a system where power went from father to son, where females had no importance. he created the REPUBLICAN TURKEY. opening and reading a book once in a while may help with ignorance and stupidness.
how do you know that? he is the only person that killed no Jewish people and even let refugees from war stay in turkey. people read something of the Internet or hear something and think it is true, but NO! he is the person who saved the non-turkish people from Bulgarian attacks and Russian pressure.
turks do let you criticize him, why are you under the impression that they are not. and idk what the author thinks but IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO CRITICIZE ATATURK IN TURKEY! he even went and asked people who criticized him, while he was in power, how they think he can be better. Kurds are people who are trying to break a piece of turkey and make it Kurdistan. Greeks and Turks has always had competition, but don't act like it's only Turks who attacked the Greeks. the greeks also attacked turkey. why do you think the land that ataturk was born in is a part of Greece? because they attacked turkey. and still till this day Greeks continuesly burn forests in touristic lands in turkey. yes Turks did attacked Greeks but they attacked back, also they were in war, and I viously both sides fought with each other's. and that thing you wrote which he said "Turks are hardworking...." and a that, that is Turks national anthem. every country has that in their anthem. in the American anthem it says "the land of free and brave" is that racist? also he never said "if you want to be happy be a Turk" you misquoted that it is actually "how honorable/amazing it is to be able to say I am a turk" which came from the Ottaman emlire effort of trying to destroy the Turk revolution. and again that is a part of the national anthem. U suppose you should do researches before you assume things. obviously he was not perfect and did mistakes but he sure as hell did not slaughter anyone like the holocaust or was racist. he often my invited other leaders to discuss their countries' relationships. you don't have to think he was an amazing leader just respect him and dont bieve everything before you actually go out and find out from AUTHENTHIC non-biased resources
OH MY GOD IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO CRITICIZE ATATURK IN TURKEY!!! I BLAME THE AUTHOR OF THIS ARTICLE FOR THIS NOW EVERYONE THINKS THAT!! it is not illegal he is openly criticized by the President of Turkey today. he calls him stupid and he is not in prison.( the president today is awful btw)
how is he a bastard? HE THOUGHT WAR WAS MURDER! and tried to keep as many people as he could out of the war. he never slaughtered anyone. in fact during the 1920s he is the only leader who did not slaughter jewish people. and no he is not jewish it was even proven that he is not. the reason there is a thing such as Ataturk slaughtered armanians is because before him was the Ottaman empire, and they have pieces of land of turkey to other countries. ataturk fought to win those lands back. armania was one of the countries which land was given to, when they lost it they were angered. it's was even SCIENTIFICILY proven that there cOULDNT have been an "Armanian Slaughter" because at the time turkey was just recovering from their own revolution and did not even have enough soldiers or time. the armanians were probably mad they lost the land and exaggerated their effort of trying to win their land back as a slaughter. please do your research before you post these very biased and wrong opinions of yours on the Internet. with all the respect
plus it is not illegal to criticize him
YOU ARE AMAZING! honestly bless you I totally support this!!
Yes they did! before ataturk it was a government of almost a king-prince type of thing. they were called sultans and the power passed from the father to the son. there are so many evidence how can you ignore this? i am deeply sorry but what you wrote ISNT an opinion but a very uneducated and ignorant thing. first of all when he was fighting against the Ottaman empire he was not a soldier or anything, all the generals followed him on their free will. later he was PUT in charge by the people because they need the decisions to be made fast during the Indepence War. after it was over he opened the "White House" of turkey and established it as a republic. he was chosen as a president and he was elected again. so he served for 15 years and then he died. before he dies he said "Authority, with no conditions or discussion belongs to the nation"
You are probably Kurdish. let me tell you, Kurds came to turkey later on and now they want to have it as theirs. I miss the times where Kurds and Turks were a family. the Kurds would drink Turkish coffee while, Turks are Kurdish dishes. no one is hding anyone's land.
THIS IS SO FREAKING BIASED HE NEVER HAD A GENOCIDE!!! THOSE PEOPLE EXAGGURATED THE FIGHT OF GETTING THEIR LAND BACK! THE OTTAMAN EMPIRE GAVE THE LAND AWAY TO COUNTRIES AND ATATURK WAS TRYING TO REGAIN IT FOR HIS PEOPLE. WHEN THOSE COUNTRIES LOST THEY GOT MAD AND EXAGURATED THE FIGHT FOR ETTING THEIR LAND BACK AS A GENOCIDE. SHUT UP WITH THIS ALREADY!! ALSO IF KURDS WERENT TRYING TO STEA TURKEY HE WOULDNT BAN THEIR LANGUAGE. THIS WAS NOT ONLY DONE IN TURKEY BUT ALSO IN IRELAND, AND MANY OTHER COUNTRIES.
What are you talking about? After he established he parliament he passed a law that says there should be multiple political parties, this was before he was elected. he wanted to give his people choices.
gerizekalilar, ne kadar da coksunuz ve ne kadarda onursuz....
honey, honey, oh boy you got it all wrong. let me help you straighten a few things up:
1) he did not change the alphabet overnight. it was presented to the parliament before. the alphabet was changed after it was approved, which was in a day yes, bu the deciding process was not overnight.
2) he sure as hell did not beat up his wife. he was the person who gave women their rights right after the parliament was established. he made the law of all children going to school, including females which was not a thing before.
3)Jesus so what if he drank, the U.S. parliament members and president drank alcohol even after Prohobition (Prohobition was a law that banned the manufacturing, transporting or selling any kinds of alcohol)
4) I do not know why you dislike him south. you don't have to like anyone, but you do have to respect them (Except if they are hitler) Don't call him a bastard and a that, that's not cool. just say I personally dont like him, that is much more mature. best regards
(ps. I'm not Turkish I am american)
first of all, he did not do that. the Ottaman empire was giving away its lands to random countries, that's when ataturk stepped in. imagine fighting for your country and then just because the empire is destroyed they start giving away the land you sacrificed so many things for. plus he didn't chnage the alphabet until the parliament was formed and the republican turkey was established. from what type of evidence are coming from and saying "he did this all over night" no honey, he was president for 15 years. he changed the alphabet on his 1-2 year. he never changed the language. arabic was the language they wrote with but for the past 50-100 years before Ataturk, they started Speaking turkish because it was easier. he told the people he would modernize them before he was elected. he wanted to make his country powerful, and instead of looking at Middle East, he looked at Europe as an inspiration. also he did not put those quotes, statues and all that up. people willingly put that up as a sign of respect. Right now the president takes down anything that identifies turkish people as Turks. he tears down statues of TURKISH heroes (not only ataturk) he doesn't let the kids learn the national anthem. please take the conditions of the time into consideration before you judge.
- people just got out of war and they were tired, most of them were uneducated farmers. they needed someone who would decide for them. yes ataturk had all power for a short amount of time which was given to him by the people. after he won the war, he quickly established a government and made a law saying there should be multiple political parties to give people a choice.
-before this they were under heavy Islamic governing so people were not modern, not that Islam is bad, just the methods of governing WERENT fit for the day.
you don't have to like him or think he was a good leader, but just respect him. not because he is ataturk but just because he is human, you have to respect everyone.
(ps I'm not turkish I am american)
I don't think we can understand the conditions then. you're right we should learn from the last, but what people meant by think 80-90 years before is before ataturk people were. blindly controlled by Islam and many people were killed because they're not Muslim. they were very uneducated, ataturk had to get them going. he had to modernize them. I think people SHOULDVE made this clear WHOEL they were writing. also ataturk IS criticized today. he is even openly criticized by today's pathetic excuse of a president. you are right people should not get his personality involved. -also the reason there are so many statues is because of respect, they can take it down if they wish to. also the president today is getting rid of everything that identifies Turks as turks. he doesn't let the kids learn the national anthem in school and tears down all TURKISH heroes statues (not only ataturk). the reason no one dares to say anything bad about him is because so many people love him. that's like someone saying Justin bieber is gay in a room full of Justin believer fans, they obviously would not. again I respect and thank you for not insulting him. best wishes... oh and I am not Turkish just to clarify things, I'm american but I just have a lot of interest in world history.
Bildigi gibi yaptigi icin bu kadar insan onu seviyo ve saygi gosteriyo. kolaysa sen yap onun yaptiklarini. MUSTAFA KEMAL SEN COK YASA ALLAHIM SANA SUKUR BOYLE BIR INSANI YARATIP TURKLERI OSMANLILARDAN KURTARMISSIN YARABBIM!!!!
One madness man has throwed a stone to well, 40 clever men couldn't remove it back. :-P
Bizi bilen bilir bilmeyen de anonymous olsak bile bir gün öğrenir....
Cevap vermeye bile değmez,...
It's not valuable even for give any response
One madness man has throwed a stone to well, 40 clever men couldn't remove it back. :-P
Kaç sene önce yazmış adam bunu halen tartışılıyor
Bizi bilen bilir bilmeyen de anonymous olsak bile bir gün öğrenir....
Cevap vermeye bile değmez,...
It's not valuable even for give any response
Size gore O pis ve uyduruk arap dinine inanmayan herkes diktatör! Biraz kafani kumdan cikar. Duzenbaz muhammed in kendi cikarina gore bir yerinden uydurdugu dininin ne oldugunu gor.
Of course he is a dictator in the Western eyes, as he did not allow the imperial powers to cut and dice Anatolia. Shocking what people wrote about such a genius, visionary, revolutionist, and peace loving person. Churchill once said that people like Ataturk is born every 100 years and that it was a shame that it was Turks who had such a person this time... People may not like him because he possibly did not allow their evil plans to take effect. Be it invading the country, or cheating people with the tool of religion! Of course the internal enemies had again cropped up after almost 100 years turning Turkey into an utter shit hole which does not make it any different from its under developed, uncivilised, religion infested counter parts.
There is a law that prohibits to criticize ataturk.
It is illegal to criticize atatürk. There is a law. There is also another law that enforces to wear "hats". Many got hung due to this during 1930s.
He didn't bring any democracy. He banned Terakkiperver Firkası and banished politics against his rule
Necessary changes..This makes the person a dictator if he enforces his audience.
These changes might be out of good will but a solid proof is the victory of Erdogans party for the last decade's election in which kemalist party lost all of them.
Sounds like ataturk's own party is not really accepted still due to the despotism of old acts of kemal
Well for the last 40 years, kemal's party was not in favor. If turks really love ataturk, why 80% of the turks are not voting for his old party?
Turkey is a country of mystery.
Republic-true
Democracy-banned the only opposition party during his reign (terakkiperver party)
Human rights-Dersim massacre, hanging imams who refused to wear hats. Funny that turks kept a law about wearing hats.
In a modern country, no single person gives right to a group.
I am from Finland and by far, ataturk fits to a definition of a dictator who "approved" rights for his own people. In western civilizations, this is not done by a 'single' person.
It is not important if it is for good or bad of a country but this is how democracy works.
He wiped out people during dersim massacre and his ruling party hasn't been for 40 years.
The most laughable part is erdogan apologised for this dersim massacre. He is better than this erdogan guy though.
He banned the only opposition party. Name a party that was there while he was alive.
This is what Churchill said about atatürk:
The tears which men and women of all classes shed upon his bier were a fitting tribute to the life work of a man at once the hero, the champion, and the father of modern Turkey. During his long dictatorship a policy of admirable restraint and goodwill created, for the first time in history, most friendly relations with Greece
Dersim massacre done by ataturk's order reveals how brutal he was. Laughable that erdogan apologised for him.
Hey! Ataturk has never been a dictator. But also there is one thing; the enemies in 1st world war have always been against him. France, England (not Britain England!) , Greece, Italy (partially) and Kurds and Islamists so let's leave Ataturk aside and let's look at how Islamists and Kurds unite with the 3 Emperialist countries of world. Have you ever been wondering why emperialists hate Ataturk and why Islamists and Kurds love emperialists. This could be a better question to ask, rather than so called dictate of Ataturk.
Someday, someone is actually going to read this post before screaming "HOW DARE YOU CALL HIM A DICTATOR?!?" in the comments. I simply wish I knew when that will happen.
Now we are in 2016 and guess who says Ataturk is a dictator?
-Recep Tayyip Erdogan,
Now think about is Ataturk a dictator?
A man who fought on 8 fronts against the imperialist forces, who refused to accept the Sevres which was the death sentence of the Ottoman empire, who gave the right to people (including women long before most democratic countries) right to elect and be elected, who encouraged independence and peace seems hardly a dictator... Most of the slanders are made by imperialists and their pawn religious groups... If one makes a research on the subject it will be found that English deployed leaflets about he was a traitor and the sultan was the only ruler while he was fighting against the invading forces... The local religious leader Nursi's name was Kurdi who helped Russian and Armenian forces before Russian revolution... The hung people were indicted traitors whom helped invading forces during war... The Dersim story goes all the way back to 1861 (Ottoman era) which feudal land owners were upraised against the state on many occasions with the support of England, Persian Empire, France and other foreign provocateur forces... The reality can be seen on lieutenant colonel A. Ross' September 5th, 1938 dated report (no 119) to England...
Ataturk was not a dictator, but for those once considered Ottoman Empire as the sick man of Europe, they still need to present him as such for their imperialist ideals ... Young Turkish Republic was stronger in character and that scared the foreign and domestic malevolent elements...
Erdogan is the real dictator here who does not love Ataturk so for him to say sorry does not mean anything. Learn about why Dersim massacre happened and who was really behind this. Look this up Celal Bayar who was a mason and was in charge when Ataturk was seriously ill(poisened). Do you really think that if Ataturk wanted it he would wait to die? Just remember it is all a game and outside forces wanted to take over look this up The Marshall law pact and after 1938 the real independent Turkish Republic was a lie it is just a big firm with Ataturk as a brand. You just putting butter on the enemy's bread and nothing else. Just do your homework before acting like someone else his puppet. Get a tissue for your issue, do you want to do something great? Than do something good that our children have a great future don't learn them to hate.
Great piece and thank you for your time. As a European Türk I admit that people dont know him well also the Turkish people themself. Atatürk was not finished and died (I think poisoned) to early. His message was deep I think orientated to the humankind but as he mentioned above the real message did not came threw. Best regards
Ne mutlu Türküm diyene
Tebrikler kardeşim katılıyorum.
Let me explain your third question: why he gave the Island away? Just let me be clear that before Ataturk there was this dieing empire called ottoman. The last sultan gave it all away first they gave it to Italy who than gave it to Greece. Why people think that Ataturk was so mean as them? Why can people not understand that he was no one man army but the man with the TURKISH REPUBLIC backing him up. We love him and still die for his cause!
Learn about why Dersim massacre happened and who was really behind this. Look this up Celal Bayar who was a mason and was in charge when Ataturk was seriously ill(poisened). Do you really think that if Ataturk wanted it he would wait to die 1938? Just remember it is all a game and outside forces wanted to take over look this up The Marshall law pact and after 1938 the real independent Turkish Republic was a lie it is just a big firm with Ataturk as a brand. You just putting butter on the enemy's bread and nothing else. Just do your homework before acting like someone else his puppet. Get a tissue for your issue, do you want to do something great? Than do something good that our children have a great future don't learn them to hate.
https://www.ataturktoday.com/AtaturkWorldPressLeadersTribute.htm
A DICTATOR ALL COUNTRIES , HIS ENEMIES RESPECTS HIM , WANTS TO HAVE ONE AND THEY DONT GET ,,,
https://www.ataturktoday.com/AtaturkWorldPressLeadersTribute.htm
NO NEED TO DISCUSS SILLY THINGS TRUTHS HURTS ALWAYS SOME PEOPLE ROGER WILLIAMS HAS SOME PAIN WITH ATATÜRK MAKES A BLOG LIKE THIS ... WE CANT TAKE THE PAIN INSIDE YOU ROGER WILLIAMS JUST YOU CAN DO....
LOL I needed it this laugh. Dictators don't have senates, elections, or a republic (rolls her eyes back to her brain). He fought for all of these things and he was so worshipped that he could have easily done any of the appalling, horrific things the rest of your list did but he chose peace. One of his many famous quotes reads: "Peace at home, peace in the world." You know what though; there are times I wish that he actually was a dictator, we wouldn't be in the situation that we are in now. OH and my friend who wrote a comment above that said " I can't trust a figure who is not allowed to be criticized": HE did NOT make that law, WE DID, my dear. In fact, he used say: "If, ever, my words go against science, always choose science." He also said "The biggest war is the war against ignorance." Which what we are all trying to do here on your wall:) My dear, this world needs sooo many dictators exactly like him to save it from the gutter its in xoxo
AL sana bitane daha Atasozu: Biz de derler ki: "Meyve veren agac taslanir.." hadi git tercume et :) Ugrasmayin bunlarla arkadaslar yaaa..
Kardeş bende Türk üm de sen salak mısın? Diktatörün anlamını biliyor musun? Basitçe gücü tek başına elinde tutan (ordu yardımıyla) adamlara denir. Ki Atatürk te bu hale gelmiştir. En basitinden Başkomutanlığı aldığında Bütün gücü eline almıştı ve bu onu Diktatör yaptı. Diktatör kötü bişey demek değildir, her diktatörün halkına acı çektirmesi gerekmez. Daha diktatörün anlamını ve niye Atatürke bunu dediğini bilmeden konuşma, Atatürke kötü demiyorlar sadece ne olduğunu söylüyorlar, gücü elinde tutan biri....
Buket Demirci is the prime example of a brainwashed Turk by the Kemalist ideology. Ataturk was a dictator by every definition. People like Buket always say "if he was a dictator, how come a whole nation loves him". Well Buket, you may be surprised to know that he is not loved by the whole nation, he was loved by the nationalistic turks of the Turkey's population. Turkey is not and never was a Turkic nation, it was multicultural and multi-ethnicity country with turks, armenians, kurds, and many other ethnic communities living together, and many if not all of these ethnic minorities suffered from the so called "democracy" Ataturk supposedly brought to Turkey. And it is not only those ethnic minorities who suffered, muslims of different sects, meaning muslims who didn't belong to the Sunni sect of Islam also suffered in the hands of the so called "Democratic" republic. Going back to the subject of whether Ataturk is a autocrat and/or dictator. How else one could describe a person who imposed several rules and laws upon the people of a country without considering their will?
Just because you love him the truth doesn't change. Ataturk was a dictator with a big following but also with a big opposition. The establishment also turned him into an icon and a deity and forbid people from criticizing him publicly by inserting archaic protectionist laws into Turkey's constitution. Turkey has suffered from this for the last 90 years but is now returning to its roots because people are awakening thanks to the technological advances which makes it much easier for people to communicate and exchange ideas rather than to rely on state propaganda.
Türkiye'nin hemen hemen çoğu melezdir geçmiş olsun.
wtf is this ... who is dictator ... who did give the rights to women choosing and be choosed firstly at world .. he is a man who sees the future ... fuck all you enemy of Turkiye , and who says he is dictator, really enemy of Turkiye... fuck off bitches ...
Atatürk diktatör olsaydı eğer, arap devşirmesi arap piçi osmanlı yavşaklarından eser bırakmazdı. Kodumun arap devşirmesi, ermeniden bozma kürt piçleri, gelmişler Türk topraklarında Atatürk'e hakaret ediyor. Keşke diktatör olsaydı da, ananızı babanızı kesip soyunuzu sikip atsaydı kodumun osmanlı piçleri. Sapık maymunlar, çocuk sikici abaza yobaz mağara köpekleri, ilkel mahluklar.
If Ataturk was born in one of the westernized nations most likely he would be one of the greatest leaders in history in the eyes of the world. Ataturk indeed was one of the most charismatic and visionary leaders ever lived. You don't call someone a dictator who gave women equal rights as men and the right to vote (ahead of many westernized nations at the time), someone who very much believed in science, medicine, arts and aviation, someone who turned to the west and created a republic out of a ruined, war-torn country. His reforms are too many to list. Dictatorship is something that uses a nation and its people for self-gains and almost always takes the nation backward. Ataturk created educational institutes and tried to give Turkish people self-confidence which was much needed since Turks faced much stereotyping by the west. Usually, the people who criticize him are religious fanatics and these people are a huge threat to true democracy. He wasn't against Islam but he was against Islamic fanaticism which stood in the way of the advancement of the nation. To understand Ataturk and his accomplishments one needs to study Turkey and its history well.
İstediğinizi söyleyin, istediğinizi konuşun bin yılda geçse 10 bin yılda geçse böyle bir lider bir daha gelmeyecek siz kendi kendinize ilah yarattığınız liderlerinizin götünün kılı olmaya devam. Tüm dünyanın zekasını hayranlıkla izlediği başarılarını takdir ettiği bir adamı istediğiniz kabul etmeyin istediğiniz kadar çıldırın ister faşist olsun ister yahudi ne olursa olsun hepimizden daha insandı. O zamanlar da bile okumanın öneminden bahsederdi, savaştayken bile kitap okurdu boşuna değildi biliyordu bu zamanların geleceğini. İlkokul mezunlarının çıkıp kendisini, yaptıklarını eleştireceğini. Az açın okuyun yanlı yansız her türden kitabı kendi fikriniz olsun çıkar için götünü yaladıklarınızın fikri değil.Azıcık oturup düşünseydiniz çok da zor değil be azıcık düşünebilirseniz kafi, beğenmediğiniz adam olmasaydı biz de olmazdık.
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